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1989-12-18
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22KB
From: Steve Hillson Area: DESQview
To: Robert Faison 16 Dec 89 17:01:18
Subject: 386 Neat Chip Set
I have a 386 with the NEAT Chip set. I am having difficulty multi-tasking
with DESQView and QEMM. System is 386sx w/4Mb RAM.
Any ideas? Do I need an All-Charge card, as well?
TTFN,
Steve
--- ConfMail V3.31
* Origin: Sail Away to Never Never Land -- 206/566-8854 (1:138/3)
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From: John Hicks Area: DESQview
To: George Heymann Of 307/7 13 Dec 89 18:53:00
Subject: Latest Trend
> if you haven't let me fill you in......It doesn't work with
> Desqview, at least
> not with the Quarterdeck Expanded Memory Manager (QEMM). Not
Same with M1 Tank Platoon. Works fine without QEMM. Sure would be nice to
run these games under DV while the bbs is up and running.
jbh
--- FD 2.00
* Origin: Gourmet Delight, Orlando, Fla. *HST* (1:363/29)
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From: David Page Area: DESQview
To: Ralf Brown 15 Dec 89 07:02:22
Subject: Re: QEMM386 - Help!
RB> Depends on your system. When I got my new 386/33
RB> (with 16450's, not 550's), I did some tests with
RB> RBcomm and with DSZ. RBcomm had no problem keeping up
RB> with 57600 bps receives without flow control. DSZ
RB> couldn't quite handle 57600, but did quite nicely at
RB> 38400 (3550cps on the one file I tried). All my tests
RB> were run under DV2.22+QEMM4.23 with no other windows
RB> open.
I agree with what you say. On my own, cached 16MHz 386, its possible to do
exactly what you say. On the other hand, just down the road, a friend with
the 20MHz version of my machine, and an ESDI controller had problems. In
general, the NS16550an is required for reliability. Mine became required when
I added a Perstore controller.
--- Sirius 1.0v+
--- QM v1.00
* Origin: ShanErin -HST- Alexandria, VA (703) 941-8291 (1:109/20.0)
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From: paul marwick Area: DESQview
To: Howard Spindel 15 Dec 89 16:48:32
Subject: QEMM NR Option
-> >like this --> Device=qemm.sys NR
->
-> What does NR do? Not documented in my copy of QEMM!
:-) Nor mine. Quarterdeck told me about that one - stands for NoROM.
Regards
Paul.
--- msged 1.99S ZTC
* Origin: Marwick's MadHouse - Brisbane, Australia (3:640/820)
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From: John Vanorsdale Area: DESQview
To: George Heymann Of 307/7 14 Dec 89 15:50:00
Subject: Latest Trend
In a message to All <10 Dec 89 14:20:00> George Heymann Of 307/7 wrote:
GH> Has anyone else noticed the latest trend
GH> in entertainment software ???? Well
GH> if you haven't let me fill you in......It
GH> doesn't work with Desqview, at least
GH> not with the Quarterdeck Expanded Memory
GH> Manager (QEMM). Not only do you have
GH> to exit Desqview as was typical with some
GH> of the past entertainment software
GH> but you have to reboot your system without
GH> the expanded memory manager. All of
GH> the software that I've tried from Access
GH> Software is incompatible as is the
GH> case with the two (2) latest titles from
GH> Microprose F-15 Strike Eagle II, and
GH> Sword of the Samurai. I contacted Access and have not received a reply,
GH> Microprose contacted me and told me that
GH> they were aware of the problem and
GH> would contact me when they find a
GH> solution......"I'm not holding by breath
GH> folks..."
I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who wants to be "entertained" while
some other task is running in the background... Which brings me to THE
question... What does make software incompatible with DV and is there any way
that these programs can be identified (other than spending hours trying to
get it to work)... What programs work and which ones don't... Betcha there
are some of you out there who can help someone get his favorite program
working, if you only realized that others were having problems with it...
--- via Quickpoint XRS 3.0
* Origin: Tried the rest? Now try the Best! Paladen BBS! (Quick 1:231/20.4)
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From: Allan Nelson Area: DESQview
To: Peter Stern 14 Dec 89 10:44:58
Subject: Re: Qemm 386 Problems... Rec'd
Glad to get the data on 3.12 as I haven't had time to install it yet.
Allan
--- KramMail v2.01
* Origin: The Fireside Opus, Houston, Texas (1:106/114)
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From: Dennis Schmitz Area: DESQview
To: Kenneth Roach 15 Dec 89 09:22:02
Subject: RE: The ultimate System
In a message of <13 Dec 89 01:31:17>, Kenneth Roach (1:208/204) writes:
KR>> Howdy gang
KR>> Can someone tell me what the "ultimate" system configuration would b
KR>> to run DESQview 386 w/QEMM-386? Cost is not an issue.. Please
KR>
KR>Cost is no object huh.... Hmmm. How about a Compaq SystemPro? A pair
KR>386's running at 33mHz _should_ get you by for a month or two... Compaq
No. He will not be able to use this machine to the best advantage under DV.
DESQview will NOT be able to use the second processor. As yet, the only OS
which supports the dual processors is the special version of SCO XENIX 386
which has been written for it. So today (until 486/33 are available) any
486/25 machine be the ultimate in processing speed.
The SYSTEMPRO does, however excel in DISK IO if you have the bucks and the
need.
KR>Let me know when you get it. I'd like to come down and gawk - :^)
KR>Not at the computer... At how rapidly your electric meter turns!
The one in our lab doesn't really suck that much juice.
Later,
dEN
--- msged 1.99DenFix MSC
* Origin: Dennis' NotePad, hardcore engineering at it's worst (1:106/1505)
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From: Bill Gustafson Area: DESQview
To: All 15 Dec 89 11:45:00
Subject: Harvard Graphics in Desqview
Can anybody out there help me? I have been trying to run Harvard
Graphics under Desqview but I haven't been having much luck. Every
time that I try to run the program, Harvard Graphics claims that it can't
access itself on the network. Obviously, DV is confusing it because there is
no network. I'm using a 386 with QEMM installed. If anybody can halp me I
would appreciate it.
Thanks,
Bill
--- QuickBBS v2.61 [EVALUATION]
* Origin: Xanth West (818-710-9998) Home of the Electronic Dr Ruth
(1:102/802.0
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From: Jeffrey Kay @ 930/21 Area: DESQview
To: Everyone 14 Dec 89 22:46:48
Subject: PC-CACHE & DV
Seems that running PC-CACHE under DV 2.25 may have caused FAT errors on
my har disk. Using PC Tools 5.5, EXP 4meg cache on a 386/25, QEMM 4.2.
Has anyone else had similar problems?
Is there a known conflict between DV and this cache?
How about SuperPCKwik?
--- QM v1.00
# Origin: ; (8:930/21.0)
* Origin: Network Gateway to RBBS-NET (RBBS-PC 1:10/8)
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From: Robert Faison Area: DESQview
To: David Westman 16 Dec 89 10:26:00
Subject: Re: 386/vcpi? Better Than Dv?
>>into the computer. In fact, nothing just pops into the computer.
>
> Sure they do, (excluding ACC installations). It's just a matter of
> patience, time, and effort. It takes time to clear away workspace,
> pull all the plugs, take out the cards, unscrew the motherboard,
> yank it out and put in a new one. Then comes the debugging. Getting
> chassis LED's to work can be frustrating when the DOC's are poor.
> But once past that the rest is easy money. Your old cards
> will either work or not work and not much you can do if they don't work.
> However, what's all this got to do with DV? Anybody out there used the
> new util from quarterdeck? It's called MANIFEST.
> Any new news about new versions? QEMM386 5.0 and DV 2.26 ?
> David
Since you asked, this thread is about standardizing on new hardware to
optimally run DV. Dealing with misconceptions is a part of that. I think we
all reached a stalemate on what is more complex to install, an ACC or a 386SX
MB. However, we have found out that from a user's actual experience that a
386SX MB's cost is much higher than was being announced. About $500 more.
That was the point.
I no longer have a 386, so QEMM386 5.0 is not something I'm going to call my
contact at Quarterdeck for. In that he just resigned to start a new
enterprise, I don't know about 2.26 either. I'm not too excited about the two
point twos. I'm the type that gets a good working version and then waits for
the three point ones. Then I'll go get em...
Bob
--- D'Bridge 1.21
* Origin: The Optical Illsion Point #3 (1:273/905.3)
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From: Steve Ahola Area: DESQview
To: Bob Davis 16 Dec 89 11:10:32
Subject: 1:1 RLL & DV
> DC> like this --> Device=qemm.sys NR
>
>Whoa, Don. Say that AGAIN. Is that an undocumented thing from
Its no rom.
--- msged 1.998z
* Origin: IBM Tech Fido - Pepperell,Ma. (1:322/1@fidonet)
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From: David Westman Area: DESQview
To: Bob Davis 16 Dec 89 05:26:00
Subject: Re: 1:1 Rll & Dv
> DC> if this is a 386 and you are running QEMM then put NR
>on the QEMM.SYS
> DC> line
> DC>
> DC> like this --> Device=qemm.sys NR
>
>Whoa, Don. Say that AGAIN. Is that an undocumented thing
>from QuarterDeck? My manuals are at the office so I can't
>look it up, but I sure don't remember it. What does NR do?
er, uh, NR ? NoiseReduction ? no it's not in my version of qemm.sys
maybe a typo on his end? David
--- QuickBBS v2.61 [EVALUATION]
* Origin: Sonic Boom ..Austin,Tx Fidonet (1:382/57.0)
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From: David Westman Area: DESQview
To: Bob Davis 16 Dec 89 05:33:00
Subject: Re: Desqview Support
> DC> this echo , also that i am a tech for Quarterdeck
Really? That's great! Well tell us about this new program
that's shipping with qemm 5 called MANIFEST.
David
--- QuickBBS v2.61 [EVALUATION]
* Origin: Sonic Boom ..Austin,Tx Fidonet (1:382/57.0)
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From: David Westman Area: DESQview
To: David Kuhn 16 Dec 89 06:05:00
Subject: Re: Zenith 386-16mhz & Qemm
>reports about 17.2. What I beleive I am doing is using
>EMM.SYS to map the 640K-1024K memory as expanded therby
>allowing QEMM to map in extended memory to that memory
>area. My question is "Is that legal? Isn't there a hardware
Wait a minute, hold on.. There may or may not be physical memory in
those RESERVED memory addresses from 640 - 1024. So what you have
is two expanded memory managers mapping in extended memory into
the same addresses? Doubt it seriously.
You didn't mention anything about QEXT.SYS to give you bigger windows
or is window size substandard to norton speed drills.
I don't know, what you describe is very puzzling, however, what's your
Landmark Speed? Do you perform Speed Disk, Optune, and Veopt
everynight to take care of those deadly frags? <grin> David
--- QuickBBS v2.61 [EVALUATION]
* Origin: Sonic Boom ..Austin,Tx Fidonet (1:382/57.0)
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From: David Westman Area: DESQview
To: Kenneth Roach 16 Dec 89 06:09:00
Subject: Re: The Ultimate System
In a message to Clark Vandiver @ 911/104 <12-13-89 01:31> Kenneth Roach wrote:
>>
>> Howdy gang
>> Can someone tell me what the "ultimate" system
>configuration would b
>> to run DESQview 386 w/QEMM-386? Cost is not an issue..
>Please includ
>> what type of Memm and how much; Perhaps a recomendation
>on a monito
You can't be serious !
Who would mess with DV if cost is no issue? Go write Sun Microsystems
a check for about $13,000 and take home your new sparcstation.
David
--- QuickBBS v2.61 [EVALUATION]
* Origin: Sonic Boom ..Austin,Tx Fidonet (1:382/57.0)
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From: Rene Bilodeau Area: DESQview
To: Peter Stern 16 Dec 89 09:00:00
Subject: Re: QEMM NR Option Rec'd
> HS> What does NR do? Not documented in my copy of QEMM!
>
> Short for No ROM. Is supposed to exclude all ROM areas from
> QEMM
> control. This switch created lock up problems on my system.
>
> Pete
>
I experienced the same thing when I tried it. Woke up in the morning to find
the system locked up as tight as a drum and my CMOS gone.
__
Cheers /_/ ,
/ \ene
--- FD 2.00
* Origin: CUSTOM design SOFTWARE /HST Royston,B.C. (1:351/1106)
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From: Robert Faison Area: DESQview
To: Jeffrey Kay @ 930/21 16 Dec 89 19:32:00
Subject: Re: PC-CACHE & DV
> Seems that running PC-CACHE under DV 2.25 may have caused FAT errors on
> my har disk. Using PC Tools 5.5, EXP 4meg cache on a 386/25, QEMM 4.2.
> Has anyone else had similar problems? Is there a known conflict between DV
and this cache? How about SuperPCKwik?
No. PC-Cache works perfectly with DV. However, I do have some interesting info
for you. Especially if you turn off the computer or have a too large cache
with a multitasking system. Read this:
To : Mike Harpe
Subj: ROCK SOLID CACHE MISCONCEPTIONS
Mike,
I just finished reading Byte, October 1989 (rarely read them, just subscribe)
and found that I had some drastic misconceptions of Disk Caching.
To recap: Someone here in DV Echo was very knowledgable and sort of cleared
up this ongoing thread titled "ROCK SOLID CACHE." At least he cleared it up
for me. He talked about how the Cache, whichever it is, should be as large as
possible. Additionally, he gave several technically knowledgable reasons for
this. I took his advice and increased the size of my PC-Cache, which is
loaded into expanded memory. This increased the speed of my system.
However, Byte Magazine, in the article 'Under the Hood: Disk Caching,' page
297, Oct 89, sheds new light on the subject. To wit: There are 2 kinds of
Caches, Disk vs. Ram. Disk Caching is dangerous if you turn off the computer
or lock up. Technically the problem or concept is call 'coherence.' If the
'Disk Cache' doesn't update the disk before you switch off, "Whole files-and,
worse yet, the directory structure of the disk itself-can be damaged or
utterly lost."
Wow! Didn't know that. With a Ram cache, no problem. The next issue is the
*types* of Cache techniques. There is Write-Through vs. Write-Back. In
microcomputers, you mostly have *write-through*. Coherence is maintained by
sending write requests to the disk controller immediately. This is considered
the most fail-safe method. However, *delayed writes* saves more time and head
motion. Delayed writes, however, cause problems. Early Unix used Disk Caching
with delayed writes. Wouldn't update the disk for hours. Sudden crashes were
disasterous. Now they do frequent saves.
In the PC world, delayed write caches flushes almost every 2 seconds (whew).
Still, if you turn off the machine, poof, lost data. Then the article goes
into how the Caches read ahead. Also how they have to wait for the IBM PC ROM
BIOS to wait, which causes additional waits. Then they mention that some
caches do their seeking in the background. Thus, if you use a disk benchmark,
the statistics are totally false and meaningless!
Then they get to the good stuff. Multitasking systems. When they have
*Write-back* methods, elevator seek algorithms are used. These write-backs
are bad because the disk must be updated all the time for safety. It should
be handled as a background task. Now, normally, its better to have as large a
cache as possible. I'll skip the Disk caching stuff, cause we're using Ram
Caches (PC-Cache mostly).
Multitasking systems apparently require a more complex algorithm. They factor
in the difficulty of getting the data back. If the disk head is far from the
data, it may be best to keep the data in the cache. Still other algorithms
take into account special knowledge of the file system (DOS). Keeping the FAT
and possible the Root directory in the cache at all times. In the Amiga file
system, reads and writes are relatively quick, but locating a file slow. Use
a Disk Cache for the Amiga. Here's the killer, (even though we're talking
Disk Cache here), if you're running MultiFinder on the Macintosh, *REDUCE*
the size of the cache to run many programs at once. Otherewise, it
continuously purges itself and then rereads before it can get going, bogging
down the whole system. Wow!
LANs need a Disk Cache also (as with multitasking systems, don't turn off the
machine, or bye-bye) on the server. Network workstations are more
complicated. Software disk caches will simply refuse to work here.
Then the article rambles on and has some programs to type in that *really*
tell you what the speed is. Not the manufactorers phoney tester.
So, whats the issue here? Multitasking systems. Desqview. That's what we use.
Should it have a smaller cache since its going to have to flush if we have a
lot of windows open? Or a larger cache for maximum speed. I believe we need a
moderate size cache here. I believe that we need someone to tell us how to
test the *flush* rate of our caches. Then we can tell if we have optimized
our caches or are simply wasting good ram when we turn on DV.
Jeff, let me know what you think. I can't write any more as I will run out of
space.
Bob
--- D'Bridge 1.21
* Origin: The Optical Illsion Point #3 (1:273/905.3)
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From: Steven Kurzrok Area: DESQview
To: All 16 Dec 89 12:48:46
Subject: Memory Management
I've watched the echo for a while, looking for hints on memory
management/maximization. I have a 386 with qemm 4.2. I had a paradise vga 8
bit card in place. With this configuration and the command line Qemm RAM, I
was able to run windows of 568K (DOS 3.3). I recently upgraded to the
Paradise VGA 16bit VGA/1024 card (very nice). On boot the machine immediately
crashed. After several frustrating hours, I was able to get the machine to
boot with a new command line QEMM x=b000-b7ff RAM, excluding a 32K area
between two segments of video ROM that qemm detected. The machine works well,
but my max window size is now 528K. Is there anything I can do to reclaim
more memory? Hints, tricks, any help or education, much appreciated. (The
manual helps little.)
-Steve
---
* Origin: The Gas Passer, EGGnet (99:9250/0), Fidonet (Opus 1:129/46)
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From: Brice Fleckenstein Area: DESQview
To: Keith Myers 15 Dec 89 19:09:32
Subject: QUESTION ABOUT DV'S MEMORY USAGE
You have a few choices - most of them involve additional hardware.
(1) If your current machine will run with 256K or LESS of motherboard base
RAM, you can add a EEMS or Hardware LIM4 memory card and some additional
memory, which DesqView will then make use of to make your second (and third,
and ...) window larger.
(2) You can upgrade to a '386 based machine, add QEMM, and add memory, with
the same results as option (1) above.
(3) If you have a 80286, you can add an All Charge Card and additional
memory, with the same results as (1) above.
(4) You can switch to DoubleDos, which uses a lot less RAM overhead. With a
340K partition, though, your second partition will be no more than 170 K or
so, though, without additional hardware like in (1) thru (3) above.
Desqview is nice, but it is NOT designed for 640K RAM machines at all....
--- SFBHQ TBBS
* Origin: SFB HeadQuarters TBBS/DDOS/Bink Indy IN (317-636-5036) (1:231/190)
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